Lanz and Iran expert argue about “imported anti-Semitism”

Markus Lanz defends himself against the accusation of racism. Michael Wolffsohn compares Hamas to the Nazi regime.

“Is that racist now?” asked Markus Lanz, slightly incredulous. “Yes,” replied journalist and Iran expert Gilda Sahebi. Specifically, Wednesday night was about the term “imported anti-Semitism”. “We can’t now deny that we naturally brought hatred of Jews into the country hundreds of thousands of times in 2015/2016,” said Lanz.

The guests

Michael Wolffsohn, historian and journalist, Gilda Sahebi, Iran expert, journalist, Johannes Vogel (FDP), deputy federal chairman

“The first time I spoke about imported anti-Semitism here on this show, exactly these same reactions came. I had to listen to how racist it all is,” said the ZDF presenter. “That’s not a reflex, dear Mr. Lanz. That’s simply a description,” replied Sahebi sharply. When asked by Lanz, she also found his description racist and argued with him about other of his formulations.

“Markus Lanz”: Dispute about anti-Semitism

The Iranian-born doctor and journalist, who writes for the daily newspaper “Taz”, among others, had previously accused CDU leader Friedrich Merz and other German politicians of “racist narratives”. After celebrating Hamas’s attack on Israel, there was immediate talk of “imported anti-Semitism”, changes to citizenship law and deportations – for Sahebi not only not a productive path, but extremely dangerous.

“This is not imported anti-Semitism. This is our anti-Semitism,” said Sahebi. “To suggest that these people don’t belong to Germany because they have a different ethnicity – that’s racist and it promotes division.” This could quickly affect exactly the people you actually want to protect. “The greater the polarization becomes, the more at risk Jews in Germany are,” warned Sahebi.

Lanz defended himself against his guest’s accusation and also questioned the accusations of racism against Merz. “Hundreds of thousands of people have come to us whose childhood and youth consisted of hating Israel and Jews,” said Lanz. “It’s simple. It’s a cultural background.” Here Sahebi agreed.

Sahebi: People have racist debates

For them, the debate in Germany has only revolved around this point for weeks. Once again it’s about ethnicity, about “THE” Muslims. Real solutions to problems, for example providing more information about the Middle East conflict in schools, were once again pushed into the background. “Instead of talking about this real problem, we are having racist debates,” criticized Sahebi. In the end, nothing will probably happen like after New Year’s Eve 2022/23.

Things definitely have to be different this time, demanded FDP Vice President Johannes Vogel. It is crucial that crimes are punished, regardless of who committed them. “The rule of law must become assertive,” demanded the Bundestag member. For him, this means that someone who has been convicted of anti-Semitic incitement is not allowed to become a German. But Vogel also made it clear: Nobody should convince themselves that no German citizens marched in the pro-Hamas demonstrations.

Like Sahebi, Vogel advocated that teachers in particular be better informed about the Middle East conflict and that the topic be firmly anchored in the curricula. Anti-Semitism in Germany does not only come from the right or from Muslims. Israel is also currently being denigrated as an “apartheid state” or “colonial power” from left-wing milieus. This is where the “barbaric primal hatred” of the Islamic terrorist organization Hamas becomes apparent.

Historian: “Sometimes you have to kill to prevent murder”

The German historian Michael Wolffsohn, who was born in Tel Aviv, spoke to “Markus Lanz” about the “tragedy of the Palestinian people”: “Terror is just an outlet with which you can release your anger, but achieve nothing politically.” He compared the Palestinians under Hamas to the German people in World War II. The Germans should have been freed from Nazi rule by the Allies: “Maybe it’s the same with the Palestinians now.”